Parking 'fines' on privately owned land are not fines at all. It is an invoice and should be treated as an unsolicited request for payment. Ignore the scary language that NXEC or their stooges use.

If you pay the fee then it will almost certainly not be possible to recover it in practical terms.

I think the best option is to invite them to pursue the ticket through the courts (which they are very unlikely to do). Under no circumstances should you just pay up.

You have committed no offence and have been ticketed by a private company whose tickets have no validity unless a case is brought at the expense of the issuer in a civil court.

The "charge" is alleged under contract law. What you have is an "invoice" (which you can contest) from a private parking company who allege you have breached their terms and conditions by parking and/or overstaying on one of the sites they manage. It has no status in law.

The reality is that they will almost certainly not be able to enforce against you and will not seek to do so. Instead they will use debt collectors who will endlessly threaten imminent litigation, references to credit agencies, personal visits, bailiffs and the sky falling on your head.

In fact they can only enforce it in law by bringing litigation in a civil court against the driver and proving a breach of prominently displayed terms and conditions. You have no responsibility to tell them who was driving (even if it was you).

Don't put up with this crap.

Thanks for the advice Lee. I'm certainly going to look into this and check the legality of their actions before deciding wether to pay of not.
It says on the notice that I've broken Railway Byelaw 14(2)(ii) which states -
'(2) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall leave or place it on any part of the railway:
(ii) otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or on behalf of an Operator or an authorised person.'

Eh, what instructions would that be then? There are no signs asking people to park Motorbikes in a certain place. Yes there are 2 signs asking people not to park bikes in a certain area but it's far from clear and very ambiguous as to where that area is. What's even more confusing is that there is even a covered area cleary meant for parking motorcycles in exactly the same place nbut even the people parked in it got a ticket.

I did find this little nugget which is quite worrying -
Unlike local authority parking fines, which motorists can challenge through an independent appeals body — the National Parking Adjudication Service (or the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service in London) — motorists’ only redress against private parking contractors is through the courts or by complaining to the Office of Fair Trading. Most motorists pay up to avoid the escalating charges or the risk of bailiffs’ bills that can push up the final cost to more than £1,000.
Are you a solictor by any chance cos I and others may need one if we decide to fight this.

A neighbour has suggested this act may constitute entrapment. Anybody?

F****ing NExEcoast
Got one as well will not pay it and will be making my way to York to see a lack of customer services reprobate (manager) next week.#
Will be going round with a camera in the next few days taking photos of the 2 signs and the lack of others stating where you can and can't park.#
Think it would be an idea if we put something in the bike shed to get as many people as possible who got one of these notices then try and get a customer service manager down to speak to you (and then hang the git) to air our views and see where we stand with this.
Wouldn't be so bad but I work for a railway company myself.
Just a shame they arn't as quick with the delay repay shit they now use.

did it say who the ticket is from i.e did the ticket have NXEC on it or another company, i was led to believe that parking was with a private company and not under NXEC i may be wrong.

do you think that the problem with the staff was due to the incident with the bike or was this seperate, remember we don't all get told things like GNER a lot of the time we have to pick it up from the newspapers, our other colleagues or customers.we complain but you may as well talk to yourself as its in one ear and out the other.

If your worried contact your solicitor as there is no actual sign which says where motorcycles should be parked, its all very well saying you cannot park but where do you park

I'm not a solicitor but experienced stupidity and greed from Westminster council last year which resulted in a legal dispute that I won. Without going into the details the one thing I learned was that parking charges and fines have nothing to do with traffic management and everything to do with generating revenue.
Not sure about the point regarding the legal position of railway land. The key point in these matters is if the correct procedure was followed from signage to road marking to the issue of the ticket. My suggestion is that specialist advice is obtained from www.parkingappeals.co.uk They charge £10- to register but were worth every penny in my case.
I would also humiliate NXEC by getting the local newspapers and radio stations involved. Good luck!

Try looking at the parking ticket forum on PePiPoo (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=dfdd07146c6da83c73090553920843a5&showforum=30). There are a couple of threads at least in the forum about parking on railway land.

The problem is that this ticket mentions the Railway Bylaw - that actually gives it the same legality as a ticket issued by a police officer or parking attendant. This can, unlike private tickets mentioned above, be pursued through the courts.

Privately issued tickets however are an invoice.

Just to echo what was said above. The ticket is for a breach of Railway byelaws and as such NXEC may result in a court visit and could result in a criminal record. (A breach of bye-law is criminal law and not civil law).

So the best advice is to get advice from a solicitor, C.A.B etc.

Perhaps if Keith Kenmare above is a member of one of the trades unions, Keith could get free legal advice from the union and pass it on?

In my opinion it comes down to the actual breach of the bye-law

(2)(ii) which states -
'(2) No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall leave or place it on any part of the railway:
(ii) otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or on behalf of an Operator or an authorised person.'

The Byelaw claims it's illegal to park anywhere, unless you're told it is OK. So you need to check the conditions that are posted by the parking machines (I'm sure they're new signs recently put up).

I would also suggest you inform Passenger focus (the national rail consumer watchdog - http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk ), Peterborough City Council AND the local MP's.

But get some advice of the Bye-law breach.

One final point - I'm sure the staff at Peterborough are the last people who want to see the public fined in this way. After all it is them that have to deal with the aftermath. I'd guess some "manager" has introduced the measure. If any NXEC staff from Peterborough read this, again I'd suggest contacting the trade union regarding the sudden change in NXEC policy and the negativity experienced from the public.

Oh and finally - should we set up an online Delay-repay thread. Then we could post delays that would fall under the delay-repay scheme. So anybody who was also travelling on the train could also make a claim (just in case they forgot).

Ok i would love to see you get this quashed but there is one thing you have to remember in all of this is what we have here and thats this webiste.

So far you have remained anonymous to who you are and if this all kicks off with newspapers, meetings at the Great northern and court cases if it comes to it then chances are, the anonymity is gonna be exposed. I think its shit that they have signs telling you where not to park, but where is the one to inform you where you can park.

I mean personally if someone asked me about a parking ticket i would not what to tell you, not because i dont give a shit, but because i would not know what to say because we have never been told, and i would be suprised if this is across a lot of the staff

Will try and get hold of one of our ASLEF reps to see what the unions could do.
But as for the bylaws:
1. It was never posted in the area where we parked the bikes.
2. There were no notices stating you could not park there except for on the access bit from the road to the bottom of the ramp or the bit between the two ramps, (if you were parked there you will have no chance of getting out of it).

The staff at Peterborough station have made a few complaints to there management about the parking tickets, the extra hasstle they are getting they have been instructed not to get involved and to ask if anyone wants any info to ring the number on the ticket, ( some of them got done as well).

Hmm me wonders whether this website is actually viewed by many at NXEC as i believe there to be now loads of stuck up notices regrding parking of motorcylces and that you are supposed to park in the main station, did you know that, i didnt and i work for this company, so how are the customers?, all over the area where the bikes are parked, not proper notices of course, no nothing so posh, laminated pieces of A4 paper where someone had typed this, a bit of a rush job to prevent legal action methinks

Bit too late for the signs going up I was there the other day taking pic's with a camera.
Each photo is date and time stamped and this cannot be altered.
Had a word with a union bod today and as far as he can see both ASLEF and RMT will be willing to give me legal advice and even a barrister if it goes to court.
So I think it’s about time we all got together to form a plan of action against Nat Exp East Coast.

I was lucky on Thursday. I had to use my car. Otherwise I too would have been got by the extornionists. I was warned by station staff on Thursday evening about what had happened so I will be travelling by car until the matter is resolved.

What the station staff did say though is that:

-a total of 39 tickets had been issued.
-they disagreed with what had happened.
-they had tried to tell the people who issued the tickets prior to the tickets being issued that it was totally unfair to simply turn up and issue tickets without warning for a practise that at PB was as old as the hills
-they too acknowledge that the signage that was put up 2yrs ago is completely ambiguous and doesn't say where bikes are supposed to be parked.
-that they agree that the suggested bike parking areas by Orton Road bridge and Mayors Walk bridge are comletely unacceptable from both personal and vehicle security points of view.
-that they are powerless to do anything other than complain at their own management (which they have done) because the ticket issuers are a contracted, separate company.

Ultimately, nobody understands what the problem is with bikes being parked where they are/were.

Motorcycle news did a story 2yrs ago when they left 3 of their own bikes at the Orton Road end of the carpark. The bike were fitted with motion sensitive alarms. They returned to the carpark several hours later and 'stole' their own bikes. Despite only being 70yds or so from a BTP station, and the bikes alarms were sounding they were able to lift all 3 bikes into a van and have them away. This shows there to be a real security problem Anywhere else other than the existing area which benefits from 2 CCTV cameras permantly pointed at the area and a constant stream of people walking by them.

This bloody sucks and I hope we can get NX a bloody nose over it and reinstate the long standing, trouble free arrangement that has prevailed since Adam was a lad.

I wonder if the management at NXEC have recently attended a training course organised by Gordon McBroon - there can be no other possible reason for wanting to alienate passengers who pay big money to travel and then get kicked in the teeth.
Although this hostile treatment has not affected me directly it is indicative of the climate of greed which pervades rail travel. The train companies will deny this and talk about increased passenger numbers but that is simply a result of the economy having done well, particularly in the South East. Let's see what happens to the passenger numbers when the economy really cools down.
Both GNER and NXEC overpaid the Government to obtain the franchise to the East Coast route and then have to scratch around increasing prices from every area they can think of. It is just so shortsighted. In a sane world NXEC would be encouraging usage of its trains by offering parking concessions to loyal customers but instead the culture of poor service and ludicrously high prices is allowed to prevail.
Personally I use the trains as little as possible and refuse to spend a single shilling on anything apart from the ticket.

It seems like Peterborough station is really going from bad to worse with taxi drivers feeling victimised one minute (I don't have much sympathy for them though) and now customers that park their vehicles are being targeted.

I'm fortunate enough not to need to use the station more than once in a blue moon but I often drive over to pick up the missus which is a mission in itself when every short stay carpark is full and cars are parked on every stretch of double yellows.

The sooner the lot is demolished for the new "station quarter" or whatever it'll be called the better.

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/Anger-as-scooters-get-parking.4117142.jp

John Gelson from NXEC couldn't confirm the notices were put up before the fines issued. So read between the lines they weren't there in the first place.

BUT they are certainly there now. Large red sign on the pavement by the taxi cab office and a large A1 poster on the back of the cab office.

Good to see National Express are treating it's "customers" and staff with such contempt.

I can understand why you are all up in arms about this. This was completely unfair. But whats also unfair is your comments about station staff. For one thing, they did NOT issue the ticket, and in fact it was a manager from HO that came down and issued the tickets. Station staff didnt even know he was coming until he turned up. When he did, they tried their best to stop him. After he issued the tickets, he got on the train and left them to deal with the aftermath. So I think youre being unfair on them. They are NOT allowed to get involved with ticket disputes, and cannot void them anyway, it is all done by HO. All staff on the day after the incident complained, but were ignored. They all agree treatment of bike users is disgusting.

A friend of mine at Peterborough directed me to your site as I am a parking enforcement officer.

You should be more careful where you park your scooter sonny its louts like you we are trying to stop.

If I see you there again it wont just be a ticket i will clamp you and then you have to pay me £200 in cash or you wont see your precious scooter again.

You have been warned.

A courteous company would have at least left notes on motorbike and other vehicle windscreens that the parking rules were changing. After all, nobody was being adversely effected by the scooters and motorbikes being parked and anyway I thought we were supposed to reduce our carbon footprint by not using cars?
As NXEC are so interested in all rules being totally obeyed I shall be interested to see their reaction when my report to the Health & Safety Executive is submitted about the filthy toilets on their trains.

Jason, firstly, thanks for taking the trouble to contibute to this issue. Secondly, you seem to know a lot about the legality of parking fines and I wondered if you knew if it is legal to issue tickets when it's not clear where you can or can;t park, there are no warnings as to which law/byelaw you've broken or what the penalties are?

Fentyke,
Firstly, I'm sorry you are angry, frustrated, and aggreived by the situation at Pboro station, along with many others.
I am myself a car park enforcement officer though not at PBoro station I must add. I commute to that staion on a regular basis and have seen the situation for myself. The laws, Bylaws the Terms and Conditions and signage only have to be posted once in each car park, also as I'm sure you are aware you do not need to put up signs to stop people parking on walkways, it's just common sense and I'm sure there is a section about this in the highway code. I hope this comment hasn't aggrivated your situaion any further as that is not my intention.

Hi Jason dont worry about these idiots.
They know where not to park, in fact now that they have been ticketed they can offer no excuse.

We are under pressure to keep pavements and walkwats clear and prevent carless parking by these tossers.
I look ofrward to clamping any scooter parked in defiance of the law of which I am there to enforce.

Why should I be sympathetic with tossers like you who obviously cant read or write properly.

Its a bit embarrasing owning a scooter cant you afford a car?

I have clear instructions to clamp down on the yobs who misuse the parkign areas.

You are one and have been warned.

Park poorly again and you will be clamped no excuses sonny.

I'm sorry CPEO, I'm going to have to distance myself from this arguement as I work for a company that states it does not clamp vehicles. If we did I'd need a warehouse to store them. I'm sure a parking fine is adequate notice for people not to offend, and to you Fentyke, yes I maybe considered a bit of a jobsworth but I am only doing a job. Someone has to do it.
If you had your own car parking space at your place of work and someone decided to park in it and go shopping for the day, I dont think you'd be too happy. I say again it's a job not all of us are out to get you, we're not all bad we'd sooner give you helpful advice first before even considering fineing you. Well I would as I've been trained to do that anyway. I hope you'll understand.

Interestingly I think the notices about parking in accordance with the Railway byelaws have only appeared in the main car parks in the last couple of months (at least that is when I noticed the prominent bright yellow boards with the info on them).

Wandering in this morning from the season ticket car park I noticed 3 scooters parked in the bike sheds at the north end of platform 2 despite the original signs (that have been there for ages) still being there and a rash of noticeable laminated A4 'posters' giving full details of where one can and cannot park a motorbike or scooter.

I'm sorry but it did make the walk down far better as you are not trying to dodge around motorbikes etc whilst avoiding the foot traffic in the opposite direction. It also avoids the pollution from bikes being ridden up and down the pavement (which is illegal as well).

I can understand the concerns raised on here about security of parking - that is only going to get worse as Network Rail (after all they own the station) have applied for permission to demolish the old Stationmasters house and tarmac over the remains for parking. How will this affect security? - well the Transport Police currently occupy the Stationmasters house and it is not clear which broom cupboard they will go into (perhaps another portacabin like the turnaround cleaners). They certainly will not have the amount of space they have at present - also where will they park their squad cars - in the car parks?

Roll on the redevelopment which we hope will give us better facilities on the station (I won't hold my breath, I want to live) and also more parking taking into account the numbers that will want to park cycles and motorcycles (again is there any hope of this).

Mentioning cycles I feel, having used a bike for some time to get to and from the station when I lived a bit closer, the provision for leaving cycles at the station is also insufficient (not as bad as Cambridge though).

Well as an employee of NXEC i know that the eign in the area where the motorcycles are parked where it states "do not park here" has been up for a while, but the recent additions which have suddenly appeared have not.

In that particular area there are no notices that state that the main car park's are the only place you can park, now i don't know all the ism's and asm's of bylaws, tri-laws or in-laws all i know that it does not seem fare that the notices where not properly displayed.

and i personally think C.E.P.O is another disguise for a certain razor? it seems like the kind of childish retorts he would come out with.

Bring on the swearing and name calling?

Somebody call?

Feneners glad to see the silly moderation as gone. The traffic seems to be returning.

If you want that wankercar park bloke thumped let me know, clearly he is a Nazi.